Philosopher Alex O'Connor sits down with a Mormon apologist to hear the case for the defense. After three hours, the case turns out to be more interesting than expected—which is not the same thing as convincing.

Rhett McLaughlin spent his twenties as a professional evangelical—four spiritual laws, spring break beaches, the full operation. Then he read a book about evolution, noticed a pattern in the counter-arguments, and could not un-notice it.